Forget superfluous features; Fix basic rendering. Seriously

  • July 27, 2016 at 10:25 am #96503
    Danny Steiger
    Pilot Pro

    I feel like a jerk posting constantly with frustrations, but for the price of the program this is just crazy!

    Forget adding features and working on the cloud (which is slow and unresponsive, and essentially solving a problem that mostly doesn’t exist), can we just get a basic stable program FIRST?

    The messed up rendering in V11.5.1.4 is just crazy and has made the program useless for anything more than line drawings.  I’ve built my reputation on quality renderings that really separate me from the local competition who are all stuck on line drawings.  This is really beyond unacceptable at this point.

    As far as I know V11.5.1.4 is not a beta version; this is a release version and as such I don’t think my expectations that basic features will work is unreasonable.

    Neil, you said they are working on a fix; what is the timeline?  Is this even truly a priority?  Because it definitely doesn’t feel that way.  Sorry for impatience, I’m sure you are doing your best, but I’m also sure you can understand the frustration from my (and our) end.

  • July 27, 2016 at 10:39 am #96505
    Hugh Brannon

    You’re not being a jerk, I have worked through 9,10,and 11 and have never had a program work as promised. There are constant problems, glitches, and bugs. We have just learned to live with it as nothing ever changes with 2020 service.

  • July 27, 2016 at 12:50 pm #96516
    Neil Wilson

    Hi Danny,

    Version 11.5.1 had over 200 changes in it.  Mostly they were implemented to address the major memory issues we were experiencing in 11.4.  Some of those turned around and bit us in the proverbial behind.  Most of them have been addressed in version 11.5.2 and the latest version is proving to be a lot more stable.  We are testing it right here in support and on a few select client machines and so far so good.  The version should be released to the public in the next week or two but please do not take that as a firm date as unforseen circumstances may push the release date back.

    I know you guys are frustrated and I apologise for that.  We are working to fix the issues in this version and we appreciate your patience and all your input.  Even the frustrated venting helps us identify issues and repair them. 🙂

    Thank you,


  • September 22, 2016 at 5:27 pm #103039
    James Garland

    I so agree with Danny’s comment regarding the importance of addressing known (and unknown) existing problems in the basic design program before spending an inordinate ammount of time building up the Cloud and superfluous features which are nice to have, but inconsequential when compared to some of the basic issues we face daily in the difficulties inherent in the basic design program.

    I’m using

    I’ve been using 2020 since the inception in the 90’s, and there still seems to be so much more that can be done to improve the design experience. Some issues from using the program today:

    – I was placing a cabinet to be located 95 3/4″ from the wall right. I typed “95.75” in the appropriate box, only I must have either grazed over or mis-typed the period, without noticing, and the program put the cabinet 9, 575 (797.9 feet) inches from the wall, just as I’d asked. Of course, the cabinet, and the rest of the plan, disappeared from the screen.

    I knew what to do, knew what had happened, because that has been the nature of the program from the beginning. Question- how complicated would it be to add a qualifying question (“are you sure you want to do that?”) when an idiotic dimension, say 9,575″, is entered as a placement dimension?

    – Cannot place a cabinet by highlighting an existing cabinet on the floor plan and double-clicking on a cabinet in the drag-and-drop box without the program crashing. This has been a feature available since the beginning…I didn’t use it a lot, but still every now and then, it’s a handy tool to have, particularly putting items in corners or tight spaces. I know now that the program will crash, but every now and then I’ll inadvertantly double click, and something will be highlighted, and suddenly 10 minutes of design work disappears.

    And can I take a minute to complain about the re-boot question: Error 369- You have exited 2020 in an unusual way…” Well I didn’t “exit” 2020, I was thrown out.

    And does anyone know how to get a window in a floor plan that doesn’t have trim? I’m working on a kitchen with some transom windows with sheet rock returns, and can’t find a way to duplicate the look. I think that if I could, it would set my work apart from the rest (I’ve seen the other perspectives).

    sorry, too, to complain so much, but I keep having the recurring feeling that the program, having been around for such a long time, should be so much more user friendly than the software I am using…




  • September 22, 2016 at 5:53 pm #103048
    Danny Steiger
    Pilot Pro

    Re: the window question…  Using the Window Wizard results in a window with no outside trim (I would LOVE to have the option, within the wizard, to pick whether to have the trim, and what size I wanted it) and only a sill.  You can make the sill invisible to get a full sheetrock wrapped look.

    Hopefully that helps!

  • September 22, 2016 at 8:53 pm #103097

    I have to say that 11.5.2 seems an awful lot more stable than 11.5.1. There are still issues to be addressed (running line, occasional crashes and so on) but it is definitely more usable than previous versions (& so it should be!).

    Rendering speed could be improved – the rendering is slow and clunky compared to some competitors’ programs and rendering quality could also be better (angled lines are very poorly antialiased making them very stepped) unless you use the ‘photo’ mode which is incredibly slow.

    I do see the Cloud feature becoming important but even this would not be the case if the program had an adequate range of catalogs or an import routine that isn’t so problematic (the Sketchup import is getting better but importing a complex shape tends to cause lots of crashes and very slow response).

    I’ve also asked for some costs for additional 3D shapes and have yet to get an answer never mind that I spent over a year fruitlessly trying to find someone in 2020 who would give me a cost for a modified XML import that mapped correctly or even had customisable mapping.

    The management honestly do not seem to have a clue about the market/users of their software. The support staff are always as helpful as they can be but I get the impression that they are frustrated as well.

  • September 23, 2016 at 12:06 pm #103218
    Lin Hamilton
    Pilot Pro

    I want to be able to use 2020 without having to be online.  That means having downloaded decorative catalogs.  The usability of the cloud depends on the security and speed of one’s internet connection.  For example, the connection from my home office is fast.  The connection from the showroom is slower AND experiences more outages.

    Security is a bigger issue. Although I try to keep all my personal financial detail off my laptop, these days I never use a public internet connection so that information regarding my customers cannot be hacked.  That means I cannot design using the 2020 Cloud when off site or at a customer’s home.


  • September 23, 2016 at 3:03 pm #103418

    Hi Lin,

    While I can’t speak to the earlier comments, I would like to address your concern over security. Currently, 2020 Cloud is online-only, which is what allows us to provide constantly and instantly up-to-date catalogs. 2020 Cloud uses a secure connection (SSL via https) from 2020 Design to our cloud servers and we don’t store any of your transactional or customer data on these servers. Your sign-in information is thus protected and your identity information is not sent back & forth during your use of the product.

    You’re right to be cautious about using an untrusted wifi source for any online activity, but I wanted to reassure you specifically about traffic between 2020 Design and the 2020 Cloud.


    2020 Admin

  • September 27, 2016 at 9:21 pm #104297

    Lin, look into having a VPN option on your system. Avira offer a free one that has limited (500mb) or a paid one with a lot mor capacity. I find the free one ample for my occasional public wifi use. Otherwise I just tether to my phone. VPNs give you a very high degree of security and in the case of the Avira one are a mouse click to switch on and vice versa.

    The other option is to use all of the cloud shapes you might need in a few ‘favourites’ drawings and they should still be available for copy and paste when disconnected (I can’t check this as I am on holiday and browsing on an ipad but it shouldn’t take but a minute to verify).

  • September 28, 2016 at 10:40 am #104306
    Lin Hamilton
    Pilot Pro


    I agree that there are some workarounds to the issue of cloud-based decorative catalogs and I appreciate your suggestions.  I keep forgetting that I can connect through my phone.

    I am more concerned with the future plans for the cloud.  Will manufacturers’ catalogs have to be supplied that way? I know cloud-based systems are sexy, but I wish 2020 were spending time on reliability, and giving us improvements to the current system such as the ability to rotate images vertically.

  • September 28, 2016 at 6:16 pm #104490

    I completely agree with your points. Virtually every other K&B design program on the market have extensive ranges of manufacturer catalogues for appliances and accessories and these catalogues are downloadable and usable offline. I travel a lot and it is surprising how often I hit speed issues on Internet connections.

    As for reliability etc – with you 100%

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